Jacques Vergès wrote...
that he knew me for 20 or 30 years...
as someone polite, discreet...
and smiling.
Some say the genocide was wholly intentional.
I say it wasn't.
There were deaths and famine, but it was unintentional.
There was reprehensible repression and torture.
But not on millions of people.
About the number of deaths: The mass graves found don't tally
with the number of alleged victims.
Torture and crimes were committed, but it was lumped together.
The U.S. Bombardments weren't considered,
or the famine from the U.S. Embargo and blockade.
It became a package, and it was all blamed on the Khmers Rouges.
Fiighting in awarseemed
risky to me, but an adventure worth having.
And under De Gaulle, a general sentenced to death.
It felt like total happiness.
To me, France isn't the settlers,
it's Montaigne, it's Diderot,
the French Revolution.
For France to disappear was intolerable to me.
That's why I enlisted.
I could've stepped on a mine and been castrated.
It was one of my big fears.
Or be disfigured, another of my frivolous fears.
It didn't happen.
I'd have lost my nose, but become a hero.
My opinions would have been valued,
even though I'd have been bitter.
This is my only warwound:
Eating oysters in Tremblade,
before disembarking at Oléron.
I was so greedy
that my British Army knife snapped back on my finger.
Oall it luck, or grace!
While in France they rejoiced over the victory,
here in Algeria on May 8, 1945,
it was more like a day of mourning.
The Sétif massacres were on Armistice Day,
that's what's so appalling.
The day Gemany surrendered,
Frenchmen slaughtered Algerians.
Numbers always vary in cases like that.
The minimum number is 10,000.
The United States consulate estimated it at 45,000.
May 8, 1945, was the day of the Allies' victory celebration,
and we felt we'd been part of that war.
We called for a peaceful demonstration,
with our slogans, and ourflag.
To carry a flag
was a crime, an insult to France
for the French settlers.
The orders were: If you see the Algerian flag, shoot at them.
So the massacre took place.
The place where I was born and grew up, Kherrata,
is known to all Algerians
for the repressive terror that took place there.
May 8, 1945 stands for Sétif, Guelma
and Kherrata. I'm from Kherrata.
This massacre took place in 1945,
and in 1954 the revolution broke out.
The two events are connected.
It was General Duval who said:
"It got us peace for ten years."
In a lawsuit in France,
one of my clients, a friend, said:
"I was ten years old,
"my parents drove me to a mass grave
"and said: Never forget that!"
So those massacres heralded the Algerian revolution.
I was a colonel,
in charge of military operations in the autonomous zone
...of greaterAlgiers and became the political-military boss
of the autonomous zone which is called "autonomous",
because it depended on no one, on no willaya.
Extremist French settlers made a bomb...
a powerful one...
it killed dozens.
I went there at the time
and I helped pull out bodies from the rubble...
The local people wanted to rush into the European quarter,
kill them, start a civil war.
We stopped them...
and said: "Keep cool, don't do anything.
"We, the FLN army will avenge you."
For the Milk-Bar.
Stop!
Go on...
Excuse me...
May I pass, sir?
We needed good-looking girls and boys
to infiltrate that world and plant bombs.
That's how...
we started recruiting. First, Djamila Bouhired
who lived in the casbah.
I recruited her
saying: "Do you agree to do it...
"to plant bombs?"
She agreed absolutely.
Then she started to recruit, and so did I.
That'show I assembled
a team of girls,
and only I decided
where bombs would be placed.
It was early in the moming. I said we're changing hideouts.
We disguised ourselves as women... There was Ali La Pointe,
the whole group...
Zohra Drif, was one of us.
As we crossed the casbah to reach our new hideout,
suddenly there were patrols.
"Stop!"
I was 15 meters ahead of the rest,
I turned around with my submachine-gun
and I fired...
Djamila Bouhired was coming,
she was the last, carrying the documents...
She was hit, and they captured her.
The moment she was arrested, we needed a lawyer.
I sent Zohra Drif,
who knew Djamila well, we were living together,
to find a lawyer.
I took law in Paris after literature and Far-Eastem languages.
I was admitted to the bar in 1955.
I was 30, so I wasn't a kid
but also not very old.
I get to Algiers,
and at the time I stayed
at the Hotel Aleti where Paris lawyers stayed,
when an emissary from the Algiers FLN,
of the autonomous zone
came to see me:
It was Zohra Drif.
I ask for the lawyerfrom Paris.
I'm told: "Wait, we'll call him."
Then I see Attorney Vergès.
Big surprise.
First, Vergès, is a very French name,
and I see someone who's more like us,
by his complexion, his eyes...
I was wearing a hijab
because I was a wanted person,
so all you could see was my eyes.
Right away I knew...
there was a feeling of mutual trust...
I let her know that I...
who had a Vietnamese mother,
a father from Réunion Island,
I sympathized with the Algerian struggle,
and didn't condemn their violence.
I was obsessed by this case
as I'd been told she was in a hospital,
was tortured on her hospital bed.
Then was handed over to a paratroop regiment.
I went every day to the Law Oourts to get news.
Every day I saw the DA.
One moming, I asked him: "Any news of my client?"
He said: "She's being interrogated now."
I said: "By which prosecutor?"
He gave me the name and I sped off.
The prosecutor, a bully, asked me why I was there,
I said Djamila's parents hired me to defend her.
I showed my letter of empowerment.
I gave Djamila my most meaningful look,
so she'd realize I knew her parents and friends.
The DAtried to make her talk.
I signaled to her she needn't answer.
She refused to answer him.
Muslim terrorists, Djamila Bouhired and Djamila Bouazza
to be tried by a military court.
We're in front of what was once the military courthouse,
the permanent military tribunal.
This tiny street
was filled during the trials by a crowd,
a mixed crowd of fascist thugs and paratroopers,
who were in this street and in the courtroom.
We pleaded, with these people behind us,
who threatened and growled,
and all around
were reporters who did this for our clients.
The trial took place in this lynch mob mood,
to the point that one day
when the spectators interrupted me,
I asked Judge Rouanar:
"Your Honor, am I in a court of law
"or a murder plot?"
We were dealing with idiots.
They had a very limited view of the world:
I was just a mercenary and a traitor.
My clients and friends were assassins or apes,
as they called them.
So they couldn't understand us.
But we could understand them,
and how their tiny brains worked.
So it was easy for me,
when I felt the mood was getting too calm,
to turn around arrogantly,
then I'd hear these growls in the courtroom,
and I'd ask the Judge: "Your Honor,
"is this a nomal trial or a murder plot?"
Orwhen people shouted "the Ohinaman", to say:
"Your Honor, must I remind them that
"when their ancestors ate acoms in the forest,
"mine were building palaces."
The problem wasn't to play for sympathy,
as leftwing lawyers advised us to do,
from the murderous fools who judged us,
but to taunt them, to provoke incidents
that would reach Paris, London, Brussels or Oairo.
What's nice about the Djamila Bouhired affair,
is that Vergès, who told French lawyers to go to hell,
who was outspoken, and insulted judges,
suddenly...
meeting Djamila Bouhired, a prisonerwho'd just been tortured,
he broke down sobbing
and was deeply upset.
I don't know if he fell in love with Djamila Bouhired herself,
he fell in love with a young woman who shattered him
because she'd just been tortured by French officers,
and she was totally dignified.
Djamila now appeared as the embodiment of Algeria.
Indeed, at the time of the trial,
it was obvious
that now the revolution was present in the courtroom
and had Djamila's face,
and the revolution had hers.
For us, Djamila was a great militant.
She symbolized the struggle
for national liberation in Algiers, and all Algeria,
and especially for women.
She was an example to all the women
who desperately wanted to militate and plant bombs,
and take part in armed actions
and be present.
At the time we noticed something:
After her arrest,
in many homes where girls were born,
they were given the name "Djamila".
She favored the most offensive defense,
she didn't want to yield.
She had said in court: "You know nothing about me,
"but you must know that if I'm ordered to place a bomb,
"I'll do it."
Which is worse for them than saying:
"I placed a bomb and I'm sorry."
So he was defending soldiers.
Who, from his point of view,
were all committed to that war.
He wasn't trying to get a 6-months shorter sentence
from a judge, as is done today in France,
by appealing for mercy and all that...
You can see why he was furious
at lawyers who came from Paris and tried that tactic.
That's when was born the idea of using a "rupture defense".
So that when the judge says: "You're French",
the prisoner says: "I'm Algerian."
The judge says: "You're in a criminal conspiracy."
The prisoner says: "I'm in the resistance."
The judge says: "You committed murder",
he says: "I executed a traitor."
From then on, no dialogue is possible.
5 death sentences in trial of "two Djamilas"
Violent incidents: Vergès put on notice.
Djamila Bouhired and 5 others were sentenced to death.
When Djamila heard the death sentence, she laughed.
What the Judge said is worthy of an anthology:
"Don't laugh, Miss, it's serious."
I found out from a local rightwing lawyer
that the prisoners were going to be executed.
A lawyer said to me:
"Do you care about your client's life?"
I answered: "More than my own."
"Then don't waste another minute.
"Mr Lacoste promised us her head."
So I told my colleagues:
The only way now to save the prisoners,
is to activate French
and international public opinion.
Djamila is Algeria's Joan of Arc
Film made of her life
Young socialist goes on hunger strike
Jordan wants her pardoned
Nehru opposes Algeria executions
For Djamila
76 British MPs for her pardon
Ho Chi Minh asks for her pardon
French President urged to spare her
Letters, telegrams from all over plead for her
Pardon for Djamila!
Germans ask for her pardon
Death row was in this block.
This was death row?
It was quite plush...
Look at this faucet, discreetly hidden.
Those were the toilets.
We did our...
We washed there and did our...
You realize...
- Night and day... - We were shackled.
Hand and foot...
Ourfeet were shackled...
Those sentenced to death aren't another species,
they're militants who raised themselves to higher spheres,
who transcended the problems
and the delicate situations
that each of them faced.
They were a model for other inmates
who emulated
their behavior, and based their attitude
on those sentenced to death.
When there was a struggle against the Department of Prisons,
when those sentenced to death sided with the other inmates,
it always worked.
A strike by inmates on death row isn't like an ordinary inmate strike.
There was a great deal of anxiety,
and also fear,
but we accepted it,
because we knew why we were there.
We were convinced we'd done right.
Someone sentenced to death
knows he has 45 days before him
to be pardoned or not
by the French President.
And once someone on death row
hasn't been pardoned, he awaits death every day.
We even prepared the statement
we'd make in front of the guillotine.
"Long live free Algeria, Inch'Allah!"
We couldn't sleep at night.
There were 5 of us:
Djamila Bouhired, Bouazza, Guerroudj and Netter.
In two cells. So we couldn't sleep.
In the morning, we heard the keys in the doors,
we heard the guillotine being set up
and wondered: "Will it be us today?"
God is great!
We heard them climbing the guillotine steps.
They said "Allah Akbar"
and we answered "Allah Akbar"
and sang a patriotic song,
and did our traditional wails,
and from the casbah the women answered.
We climbed on each other's shoulders
knowing that the brothers who'd be executed
were behind that wall.
Then we sang patriotic songs,
did our traditional wails...
And the whole city
woke up at 4 AM out of solidarity for one of them.
The day following an execution
was a day of fasting. All the inmates fasted.
No coffee in the morning,
no soup at noon, no soup in the evening.
It was total silence, everyone prayed,
and the people were...
they were in a state
of extraordinary spirituality.
I've had clients, friends, who were sentenced to death.
Several dozen.
- None was executed. - I wanted to ask you...
I no longer slept.
If any of them had been killed, I'd have shot...
The writer GeorgesArnaud said to me:
"What if she's executed?"
I said: "I'll shoot someone."
I can get an appointment with Mr Lacoste or General Massu,
and I'll shoot him.
Then I'll be at peace with myself.
Luckily, Almighty God didn't want it.
Djamila Bouhired and Jacqueline Guerroudj pardoned
Their sentences commuted to life at hard labor
I'd lived in a colonized country,
son of a Réunion Island father
and a Vietnamese mother.
My childhood memories are of a country
where colored people had to step aside
to let the Europeans go by.
It was a sight,
an unacceptable feeling
to young kids like us.
I think he was born at war,
born angry,
born colonized.
Once you've been colonized,
the only attitude for a man or a woman,
is to be against things.
You can't go along with them, make compromises.
So you're against things.
I think he became a lawyer by accident.
It was the only place where he had a venue.
If you took up ams, you'd just be another soldier.
Being an angry lawyer, in a colonized country,
you have the best venue there is.
Better than joumalism, or anything else.
All eyes are focused on a duel between two people,
one a judge, the other a "terrorist",
in quotation marks,
and the trial can become memorable,
as no one can stop you from talking.
After World War II, colonial student associations regrouped,
and new ones were formed.
Like that of the Khmer students,
headed by a certain Saloth Sar
who later became Oomrade Pol Pot,
those groups were fomed then.
Like the Union of Algerian Muslim Students, the UGEMA.
These groups, like the Réunion Students Group which I headed,
had liaison committees,
our paperwas called "Anticolonialist Students",
and we constantly organized demonstrations
in the Latin Quarter.
When I tumed 29,
it was time to quit being a perennial student:
I'd done 2 years of Law, I'd do a 3rd year,
pass my exams, and be lawyer.
It's not an odious profession,
that's all one can say.
On my first case as a public defender,
as I sat facing my small-time hoodlum client,
I said to myself: "That guy is me."
"I could've done what he did,
"if I'd been in his shoes."
Then I knew it was my calling.
Lawyers were remarkable go-betweens.
We had no telephones to communicate
from one jail to another.
How did everyone, overnight, go on strike in every French prison?
Lawyers were very important links.
That's how I met Jacques Vergès
and kept on seeing him.
In jail he was my lawyer, he came to see me.
Here's a story...
We were 1,200 inmates in Fresnes prison,
200 could read and write, 1,000 couldn't.
After the hunger strikes, we got the right
to teach courses.
Ayear later, all 1,200 could read and write,
and in 2 languages, Arabic and French.
We even gave music courses.
We had LPs...
That's revolutionary, too.
Because a revolution isn't a beast
that devours its best children, it also saves them.
Bomb blast at Corniche casino 7 dead on dance floor
I cried one day
after the bomb blast at La Oorniche,
because I'd sworn
to stop planting bombs.
Enough of that!
Why? Because they mutilate people.
The deaths I didn't mind,
we all have to die.
But people losing their arms and legs,
that makes me sick.
So I said, no more bombs.
Enough of that!
And I fell back into it...
Once they start executing,
I go back to doing it.
The real question to me is,
who does one do it for?
The difference between the FLN and some groups in France,
that carried out bomb attacks,
like some local groups,
is that Algerians were for their terrorists.
The French weren't for theirs.
Algerian public opinion was pro-terrorist.
Once the battle of Algiers started,
all the Algerian lawyers were arrested.
Which meant we had a huge task.
The P.M., Michel Debré, said:
"These lawyers harm us more than a whole division."
It's true: Morally, the use of torture was a terrifying defeat.
French soldiers aren't torturers!
In every trial, we'd say torture was used,
humanists reproached us for that.
Every case involved torture.
In every case that came up,
the Algerian people brought up the use of torture.
Hence the murder of one of us, Ould Aoudia.
We were told to kill them, starting with Attorney Aoudia.
You say you were told.
Who told you?
Mr Debré, the Prime Minister.
The order was given to shoot the four people defending the group,
the four lawyers:
Ben Abdallah, Oussedik,
Ould Aoudia and me.
We got a letter, anonymous of course,
that said: "You too",
and below there was a number.
It was very clear.
Vergès was N° 2, so he took it seriously.
He'd sleep at my home, to keep a low profile.
I had a lot of novelty items:
He loved to take my water-pistol,
we'd go out in my car, I drove, he sat beside me,
and as soon as he spotted someone at a red light,
he'd fire a jet of water and we laughed like kids.
He had such joie de vivre...
Probably, to relax from the tension of the trials,
because he really took risks in the trials.
He insulted the judges, refused to rise for them,
sang the Kassamen, the Algerian anthem
with the patriots who were on trial,
he waved FLN flags in the middle of his pleading,
I mean it was really...
He could have been arrested at once and jailed.
Once Algeria became independent,
I founded a newspaper with Djamila and Zohra
called "African Revolution".
He put out a call to his old pals in Paris,
so I and others went over there, I did the layout.
But I didn't have the freedom I had at L'Express,
Algeria became a drag, more restrictive than France.
I couldn't talk
about girls, or booze...
Ben Bella who ran things there was a bit shocked:
"Don't print that drawing"
or "You'll shock real Algerian militants".
I said: "I've had it" and I quit.
"African Revolution" is what took me to Ohina.
Chinese Spring", by D. Bouhired & J. Vergès
I realized it was a big moment, I'd make important life-long contacts.
You sense that the Ohinese
don't agree with the Russians about "peaceful co-existence."
They're more committed to the struggle in colonial countries.
On that point, I side with them.
Very soon I got to meet Ohairman Mao.
I filled him in about the activities
of pro-Ohinese groups in Africa.
He listened very attentively,
maybe out of courtesy.
As we were leaving, he asked me,
indicating Djamila: "Will you two get married?"
I was very surprised by the question,
and said: "We're thinking of it."
If anything was going on between us,
we tactfully hid it
until she was freed.
In Barberousse, we met in the visiting room.
In the women's wing of Maison Oarrée prison,
in summer,
sometimes we met our clients in the yard.
Then the prisoners were transferred to France,
first to Pau prison,
then to Rennes.
I always went to visit her,
except that...
in early 1961,
I was suspended for a year.
They tried to get rid of us by various means,
so I used this 1-year ban to go to Morocco,
where I counseled the government on African affairs.
And when Djamila was freed, she and other prisoners
went back to Algeria via Morocco.
That's where you got married?
No.
Jacques is sentimental, much more than I am.
He's desperately sentimental.
I promise you that, I've seen him in certain situations...
Jacques, is really sentimental.
I'd gone to visit Djamila,
her mother didn't approve of her daughter marrying a non-Muslim.
I always said, Jacques: "You mustn't convert,
"You'll have to be circumcised, you're nuts,
"and you'll have to give up pork!"
I reminded him of all the pork we ate, and the wines,
he adored vintage Bordeaux,
now suddenly he only drank water,
he set his alam at 5.30 AM.
And ate dates before breakfast.
We had rows, amicable ones.
I said: "You've really gone down in my book!"
Some say, but I don't think it's true,
that Ben Bella wanted to marry Djamila,
not because of her beauty... Have you met her?
Yes.
- Is she still as pretty? - Magnificent.
She's a superb woman.
But she was also a national heroine,
and Ben Bella... was ambitious.
I don't think Vergès liked Ben Bella's Algeria.
To him, it lacked a sense of direction.
He wanted to steer it closer to the Ohinese model.
The ideas in "African Revolution" didn't agree
with those of President Ben Bella at the time,
and I was soon dismissed from my job.
Then, I opened my law office.
It soon had a political slant when Bouteflika said to me:
"Our Palestinian friends want a lawyerfrom here
"to go defend a Palestinian
"in the occupied territories,
"in Israel.
"I thought of you because you can travel."
So I went to Israel then
in 1965,
just after my marriage.
A Palestinian
is yesterday'sAlgerian.
To us Israel
is basically a colonial phenomenon.
I flew to Israel, and was met at the airport
by the Police Ohief who said:
"You're persona non grata.
"You'll spend the night here and fly out tomorrow."
They put me in a small room,
it was on the first floor,
suddenly the window opened
and a reporter said: "Oan we have a statement?"
I'm a perfectionist, I hate improvisation,
I had a written statement, rolled in a ball.
I threw it to him, he caught it and left.
The next morning, I flew to Zürich.
The airline stewardesses were very kind,
because the "Jerusalem Post"
told of my misadventures.
It had published
a photocopy of my declaration:
"You have no right to judge me. You're occupiers. I'm a patriot."
And I knew
that my client would read
that newspaper that the guards also read,
and would know what position to take.
He was sentenced, I think, to 15 years.
I don't know where he is now.
Then, I was appointed
to defend the Palestinians arrested in Athens,
for attacking an El Al plane.
First, my friend shot and I put the bombs in the turbines.
El Al jet machine-gunned
Some 40 Greek children
got into the airplane.
So that's why we didn't destroy it completely.
We only killed one Major-General.
The PFLPclaims responsibility for the attack on the Israeli plane
I'd gone to Athens, with Bar President Bentoumi,
we'd been hired to defend them.
We met them at the jail,
we met the magistrates,
but we didn't get to plead,
it was settled... politically.
They made a deal and we were released after 13 days.
Then we went to Zürich.
Zürich was similar:
An El Al plane attacked by Palestinians.
This time, we got to plead.
It was the famous trial of Winterthur
where we adopted Jacques Vergès' strategy of "rupture defense":
We refused to be part of the trial.
I think that's what saved him,
he felt grateful to the Algerian government
for sending him to defend Palestinians,
and he published a book,
"For The Fedayeens" at that time.
But it was the only thing
that stimulated him intellectually.
He'd returned to Algeria, married Djamila Bouhired,
and instead of being a major politico, a thinker,
he'd become a small-time divorce lawyer:
That's all Algeria gave him.
It had let him be the husband of Djamila Bouhired.
She wasn't Jacques Vergès' wife,
he was the husband of Djamila Bouhired,
who's as famous there, as Jean Moulin here.
He'd become a Muslim
and I think he was bored.
Those were terrible years for him.
He left to be done with it.
My last client...
was the son of a fisherman
from Dellys, a small Algerian port.
Or really his father: The son had been run over by a car,
and I sued the insurance company.
Everybody was intrigued by Jacques' disappearance.
His ex-wife, who I knew well, Karine,
had no news either.
FLN lawyer missing for 3 months
He was last seen on February 24, 1970,
at an anti-colonial rally in Paris.
He made a speech
and vanished.
After 3 months,
Djamila Bouhired and his friends, were sure he was dead.
They put an ad in the papers,
asking if anyone had seen him.
They were very worried.
A new Ben Barka affair?
When you...
go underground,
of course you have to cut all ties.
Especially with people to whom you're most attached.
When I went on "long vacation",
a pipe is very recognizable.
To pass unnoticed,
I threw my pipe away.
I removed the labels from all my clothes.
I destroyed lots of documents, photos, etc.
I heard what everyone said, that he was with Pol Pot.
The Brilliant Bastard
In that book are two passages I remember.
It says...
that Jacques Vergès could have been in Oambodia.
I remember that Pol Pot wrote in the margin: "No".
Most people say he was in Cambodia
If Jacques Vergès had entered Oambodia,
Pol Pot would have known.
He couldn't have not known it.
They say there are some things only you know.
It's true, only I know.
After Pol Pot, only I know. What you heard is true.
He was General-Secretary, I was Under-Secretary.
But some things only I knew.
Pol Pot said: "We rule together, but each has his area."
When he vanished from 1970-1978, he wasn't being a lawyer.
He did something that interested him,
and was a cure
forwhat he could no longer stand.
He rethought the world,
but he did his revolution all alone.
His strength is to have never turned his struggle into something official.
I was drawn to what seemed important to me.
It was in May 1973,
and a very tense period.
We were several politicians,
of different tendencies. I remember clearly
that the ambassador of Kuwait was there,
and the head of the National Group, Raymond Eddé.
We all were meeting
at Arafat's HQ.
Suddenly, there was a battle, a gunfight
between the Lebanese army and the Palestinian groups.
So we were surrounded inside Arafat's HQ.
And we stayed there
from 5 PM
till 2 AM or 3 AM,
almost for 7 to 8 hours.
I was sitting
in Arafat's office.
He was calling people, giving military orders
and also talking to the Arab leaders,
trying to stop what was going on.
When he calmed down,
his security chief Abou Hassan...
Arafat suddenly looked at him and asked:
"Who is this Vergès? What is he?"
Abou Hassan Salameh answered literally:
"He's an important lawyer who defends the Palestinian cause."
Arafat smiled and said: "Keep working with him."
Vergès has the extra merit
of being committed, and to other struggles.
My codename was "Pascal".
- And Vergès? - "Mansour".
Remember crossing a lake with him?
I crossed lakes several times.
- With him? - I can't talk about that incident...
"I first crossed the lake with Bachir, we were wanted."
I was in a lot of countries
but what mattered to me was the Arab world:
Egypt,
Iraq,
Syria, Lebanon.
During this period of exile, I had other activities,
always along the same lines,
to do with liberation movements, the emancipation of peoples.
Including the Palestinian movement,
especially that.
There were several radical Palestinian movements,
and he may have been there at that time.
In that era,
when many believed in the internationalist myth
that what would happen in Palestine
was the spark that would set fire to the whole Middle East.
2 people headed this organization,
Georges Habbache and Dr Waddi Haddad.
They're both physicians...
and both of them are from the Ohristian-Palestinian bourgeoisie
and are Marxists.
Haddad and Habbache are Intemationalists.
Haddad had a brilliant idea.
This was in the late 1960s, early 1970s.
In Europe and all over the world, even Japan,
there were student demonstrations and unrest.
Many new revolutionary organizations
were born of this unrest,
or saw their ranks swell enormously,
and many of them were hungry for action.
Waddi Haddad and the Palestinians realized
that if they could enlist terrorists who weren't Palestinians,
it would multiply
their capacity for action.
He was the boss, without him, no one got through.
It was very easy to enter...
Somalia, or Mogadishu,
to get into Yemen, orAden,
at the time there were 2 Yemens,
and I mean South Yemen.
It was easy to get into Iraq, or Baghdad,
all you needed to get in was a password.
But to get out you needed Waddi Haddad's OK.
Vergès could or should have been a terrorist.
At one point he was very pro-Palestinian,
and his anger against the Jews
could have made a terrorist of him.
But he couldn't be the kind of fighter
who sleeps in cellars and eats tinned food.
He's too fond of the good life.
He likes fine cuisine,
and reading books, he's an egghead.
I don't see him as a karate man.
But pressing a button to blow things up,
if that's all it takes, would be no problem to him.
I wasn't on the moon.
I was among people.
Who are as discreet as I am.
Maybe for serious reasons.
That's why I can't talk about them.
It's all very simple.
I met Vergès at François Genoud's.
I met a lot
of François Genoud's friends: Arabs, Africans,
Germans, who came to his home.
It was always on Thursdays,
from 3 PM to 7 PM,
we drank tea or coffee at his home, and talked.
François Genoud is a Swiss Nazi,
not a neo-Nazi: He was pro-Nazi in the Nazi era,
an early fan of National Socialist ideology.
He also managed
the book-royalties of Nazi leaders.
Genoud also financed the FLN and Palestinian groups
via financial deals
that went through a bank he set up
in Switzerland.
There were close relationships between Nazism
and some revolutionary or independentist groups
in the Middle East.
Like Husseini...
Grand Mufti of Jerusalem,
who wanted a Holy War against the British,
and was financed by the Gemans
to make trouble in the British colonies.
Palestine was then under British mandate.
The fact is, that's how Genoud got going,
in an explosive Middle East.
So he was influenced by all that...
But regarding François Genoud,
many people try to link him to Vergès and to me...
Because of our relationship...
we agreed on certain things...
To me, Genoud was always a mystery.
As to the notorious François Genoud,
they met during the Algerian war,
at the start of independence,
when both were close to Ben Bella.
They met for the first time
over the case of the Palestinians in Zurich,
who had hijacked an El Al plane.
Genoud was everywhere and nowhere.
He was in contact with the families
of the men imprisoned in Switzerland,
in contact with Vergès, with me, with Bentoumi.
In contact with the Palestinian leaders.
Everyone knows he had a privileged relationship
with the top Palestinian leader.
François was a worthy man
who took part in the discussions
and I'm sure gave